NOTES VP debate of 10/1/24
I admire so much
the analysts who can watch/listen and make a cogent summary.
Commentators agree
that the debate was not at all important in determining who voters would choose;
they observed (on TV, on radio, in newspaper) that it was very civilized, maybe
too “nice,” and not substantive enough.
It was noted that
Vance talked over the two moderators; as they were both women, it made him
appear the epitome of a “mansplainer.” The reiterated
points by Walz were that Trump’s plans are bad, Harris’s are good. The reiterated points by Vance were that
Harris had 3-1/2 years as Vice President and did not accomplish those goals.
The debate followed
the same pattern as the presidential debate a few weeks ago. “CBS Evening News”
anchor Norah O’Donnell and “Face the Nation” anchor
Margaret Brennan moderated. The
questions were on the Israel situation, climate change, immigration, the
economy, abortion, gun laws. housing, health care, families, democracy and the
men’s personal qualifications.
Q: Would you support an Israeli pre-emptive
strike on Iran?
W:
Talked about Trump not being capable.
Said U.S. will support Israel.
V:
Introduced himself, told about
his background, in case viewers did not know anything about him. Trump delivered stability by establishing a
deterrent. Biden/Harris gave money to
Iran, which it used to buy arms. We
should support our allies.
W:
Trump pulled the program that was a coalition of nations. When Iranian missiles fell near our troops,
Trump called it a “headache.”
Q: What would you do to reduce climate change?
V:
Young people are worried about”crazy weather patterns.” People worry about carbon emissions. The solution is to produce energy here, because
we are the cleanest. “Invest in American
workers.”
W:
Governors work together in a non-partisan way… Trump joked about climate change.. Biden/Harris
invested in jobs – solar energy. Farmers
know climate change is real. We are
producing more clean energy than ever.
V:
Trump said we need more manufacturing in the U.S. A lot of those solar panel components are
made in China.
W:
We produce more natural gas than ever.
Q: Immigration.
Asked Vance to be specific about how so many would be deported, separation of families.
V:
Kamala Harris undid Trump’s border policies… opened the floodgates. Fentanyl was coming in at record levels… We’ll start with the criminals… One million
of them. Then don’t let the immigrants
work at less than minimum wage; if there’s no work, they’ll go home.
Q: the children?
V:
Three million children have been lost by the government…
W:
Kamala Harris was the Attorney General of a border
state… We had a tough coalition bill,
the border patrol wanted it, the Wall Street Journal wanted it, but Trump
stopped it. Trump had four years to
“build a wall” which he said Mexico would pay for, but only 2% was built and
Mexico paid nothing.
V:
We already have “child separation.”
Chldren are being used as drug mules.
All Harris did as VP was to undo Trump’s actions.
W:
Vance vilified legal immigrants…
V:
Housing, schools are overwhelmed.
Anyone can apply online for legal status!
(he kept talking
overtime, until moderators cut off the microphones)
Q: Economy
W:
Kamala Harris’s plan would create three million new houses. Trump’s tariffs would cause a 20% tax
hike. The wealthy need to pay their fair
share. Economists from the Wharton
School of Finance criticized Trump’s plan.
[NOTE: Trump graduated
from U Penn’s famed Wharton School. See
this fascinating article: https://www.phillymag.com/news/2019/09/14/donald-trump-at-wharton-university-of-pennsylvania/ ]
V:
She had the opportunity and didn’t do those “great things.” Instead the cost of living has gone up. Those economists “have Ph.D.s but no common
sense.”
W:
Trump’s failure to listen to experts during Co-Vid led to a worse
recession. Donald Trump hasn’t paid
taxes in fifteen years and he brags about it.
V:
“Experts” said we should shift manufacturing to other countries. Donald Trump said no, bring it back to the U.S. “Listen to common sense, not experts.”
W:
Donald Trump created the largest deficit in our history… Farmers need fair trade partners.
Q: Your leadership qualities
W:
“I’m a knucklehead at times, but I always work for my community.”
Q: (to Vance) what you said in 2016 comparing
Trump to Hitler, and in 2020 criticizin his economic record.
V:
“I was wrong. He delivered for
the American people.” Biden did one
good thing, he continued some of Trump’s tarriffs.
Q: Your views on
abortion
W:
(recounts Texas woman’s experience) Donald Trump put this into motion. Project 2025 would have a registry… After Roe was overturned, maternal mortality
in Texas skyrocketed.
V:
My party must get people’s trust back… Make it easier to afford to have
a baby… Give more options. We have a big country—let voters make
decisions in each state.
W:
(Mentions a woman who died trying to get to another state for an
abortion) You supported a national ban after fifteen weeks. You’ve changed your position.
V:
No, I never supported a national ban.
“So many young women would love to have families.” We need to make child care more accessible. (Accuses Minnesota of being pro-abortion.)
W:
We’re not pro-abortion, we’re pro-freedom. Minnesota has one of the lowest teen
pregnancy rates.
V:
Under Minnesota law, a doctor isn’t required to help a baby
survive after a botched abortion. Kamala
Harris wants to force nuns to provide abortions.
W:
Don’t distort the law. That’s not
what it says. Things
worked best when Roe was the law.
Q: Gun violence.
Sen. Vance, you oppose most gun laws.
V:
Details matter. 90% of gun
violence is done with illegal firearms…
from the Mexican drug cartel…
Protect schools with increased security:
stronger doors and locks, more officers.
W:
My 17-year-old grandson witnessed a shooting in a community center…
Hunters understand the second amendment… Minnesota has enhanced Red Flag
laws. Finland has lots of guns but not
school shootings. “Do you want your
school to look like a fort?”
V:
(expressed sympathy and concern about the boy witnessing a
shooting) We have high rates of
substance abuse, mental health probles, in big cities. “We must arrest the bad guys.”
W:
I was in the NRA; they used to teach gun safety. The number one firearm death in Minnesota is
rural suicide. Children get a gun and kill
themselves. “Sometimes it’s just the
guns.”
Q: The housing shortage. Will handing out money to homebuyers drive up prices?
W:
(talks about what “home” means to people) A Veteran’s Home Loan was great.
V:
An increase in illegal aliens drives up the prices of homes. Harris should have gotten something down
before, “not sit around.” We have unused
federal lands that can be used for homes.
“We should be kicking out illegal imigrants who are taking the houses.”
W:
Which lands? The
protected federal lands? They are
protected for a reason…
Q: (to Vance) Do you have evidence that migrants
are the problem?
V:
We have evidence! We are a
country of builders, explorers… Harris wants
to throw people in jail if they don’t do exactly what she says… We should not give (money) away to people without the right to be here.
W:
“Congress, not the Vice President, writes the rules about housing.”
Q: about Health Care and pre-existing conditions
V:
Of course. People would have
private choice under Donald Trump. Under
Kamala Harris, prescription drugs rose.
If states can experiment… Donald
Trump could have destroyed Obamacare but he didn’t.
W:
I come from a major medical state (mentions the Mayo Clinic, 3M,
etc.) Donald Trump’s plan was to repeal
the ACA at once. Only Sen. John McCain
saved it. Kamala Harris lowered Medicare
drug prices. What Vance is explaining is
pre-ACA, letting the insurance companies decide who to insure.
V:
Keep the regulations to protect pre-existing conditions. The problem was
that young healthy people were leaving the ACA exchanages.
Q: America is one of the few developed countries
without national paid leave for babies and illness.
W:
Big companies in Minnesota and California usually have a
great leave system; but others don’t.
Donald Trump will give tax breaks to the wealthy… Caregivers need more pay…
Q: About election fraud. Sen. Vance, would you challenge an election?
V:
Donald Trump said protest peacefully in 2020. I said, debate peacefully. The threat to democracy is the threat of censorship.
Kamala Harris wants to wants to silence people who engage in
misinformation. I welcome Tulsi Gabbard
and Robert F. Kennedy, Jr….
W:
This is troubling. Donald Trump
said he didn’t lose the election. The
election was adjudicted. For the first time in American history a president
denied the election. This has got to
stop.
V:
“It’s really rich to say that Donald Trump is a threat to
democracy.” Trump was peaceful… Hillary Clinton said that in 2016 the Russians
bought Facebook ads… “I don’t buy it
that only Republicans have this problem.”
W:
“Censorship is book banning. We
are miles apart on this. (to Vance): “Did
he lose the 2020 election?”
V:
“I’m focused on the future!”
Kamala Harris wants to silence peole for speaking their minds. Let’s argue and then decide.
W:
It’s like yelling Fire in a crowded theater. “Donald Trump lost the election. Where is the firewall if Donald Trump knows
he can do anything?” (directly to audience) “America,
you’ve got a clear choice.”
(Summary)
W:
I’m surprised as anybody at this coalition from Dick Cheney to Taylor Swift
and all sorts of people in between… “We all know who Donald Trump is—he told
us… Senator Vance told us he will stand
with Donald Trump’s agenda.” We don’t
need to be afraid. Kamala Harris is
centering you at the heart of her agenda.
V:
We didn’t talk about energy… I remember when my grandma didn’t have enough money to turn on the
heat at night… Kamala Harris’s policies
have made it harder… she’s had three and a half years! We have the
greatest country in the world but people can’t fulfill their dreams under the
Democrats.
== ==
==
CBS commentators:
Vance was different than usual… Vance
repeatedly said that Kamala Harris should have done things before… He seems to be that Donald Trump
founded the ACA… He was cordial and
compassionate…
MSNBC panel:
(Joy Reid, Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O’Donnell, Nicole Wallace, Chris
Hayes Alex Wagner)
Joy
- When running for the Senate, Vance said that abortion should be banned nationally
and women stopped from travelling for an abortion. 80%
of solar panels actually come from the USA, you can Google it.
Vance is incredibly smooth… all
bland lies… People (online) complain that Walz didn’t “knock Vance out.”
Rachel - Walz destroyed Vance on health care.
Lawrence - Vance didn’t answer the question about whether Trump won! “He said
words but didn’t answer the questions.”
No answer about separating families, no answer about the national
debt. No answer about where to seize
federal lands.
Nicole – Vance kept speaking over the women moderators.
Lawrence – Norah O’Donnell did correct him on climate change being scientifically
proven, and Vance complained that they were “fact-checking.”
Chris –
You saw that Vance had the ability to talk to people who disagree.
(Video clip of Norah O’Donnell trying to get Vance to answer the
question about the election results, and Vance saying “I’m focused on the future”)
Lawrence – Vance would say anything to get to Trump’s position on any topic.
-----
(in the “Spin Room” after the debate, where everyone stands around
talking)
Alex W
interviews Gov. Pritzer of Illinois, who says,
This election is about the survival of democracy. He’s a slick debater, who kept shifting. Walz speaks in a way that ordinary people can
understand.”
Alex – Vance seemed very rehearsed, trying to be agreeable.
Gov. Pritzer – “He hasn’t ever held a job for more than two years. He wants power.”
-----
( ?) - That wasn’t the Gov. Walz I’ve seen, or the
JD Vance I’ve seen.
Nicole
– Yes, they were too mild. There was no
contrast.
Rachel – There was good contrast about guns in schools. Is style a problem? Is Walz not “punchy” enough? Was it a strategy?
Joy
– This debate won’t move many people.
There are a few who wanted “details.”
It was the Democractic bse who wanted a fistfight! Walz gave specifics on policy. He made people comfortable.
( ?) – Lots of people are
undecided on whether or not to vote!
(in the Spin Room again)
Alex W. with former Sen. Claire
McCaskill
Claire: Vance is a better liar
than Donald Trump. Most Americans don’t
see the Vice President as having power to make policy.
----
Poll after debate as to “who won”
42% Vance
41% Walz
17%
tie