NOTES VP debate of 10/1/24
I admire so much the analysts who can watch/listen and make a cogent summary.
Commentators agree that the debate was not at all important in determining who voters would choose; they observed (on TV, on radio, in newspaper) that it was very civilized, maybe too “nice,” and not substantive enough.
It was noted that Vance talked over the two moderators; as they were both women, it made him appear the epitome of a “mansplainer.” The reiterated points by Walz were that Trump’s plans are bad, Harris’s are good. The reiterated points by Vance were that Harris had 3-1/2 years as Vice President and did not accomplish those goals.
The debate followed the same pattern as the presidential debate a few weeks ago. “CBS Evening News” anchor Norah O’Donnell and “Face the Nation” anchor Margaret Brennan moderated. The questions were on the Israel situation, climate change, immigration, the economy, abortion, gun laws. housing, health care, families, democracy and the men’s personal qualifications.
Q: Would you support an Israeli pre-emptive strike on Iran?
W: Talked about Trump not being capable. Said U.S. will support Israel.
V: Introduced himself, told about his background, in case viewers did not know anything about him. Trump delivered stability by establishing a deterrent. Biden/Harris gave money to Iran, which it used to buy arms. We should support our allies.
W: Trump pulled the program that was a coalition of nations. When Iranian missiles fell near our troops, Trump called it a “headache.”
Q: What would you do to reduce climate change?
V: Young people are worried about”crazy weather patterns.” People worry about carbon emissions. The solution is to produce energy here, because we are the cleanest. “Invest in American workers.”
W: Governors work together in a non-partisan way… Trump joked about climate change.. Biden/Harris invested in jobs – solar energy. Farmers know climate change is real. We are producing more clean energy than ever.
V: Trump said we need more manufacturing in the U.S. A lot of those solar panel components are made in China.
W: We produce more natural gas than ever.
Q: Immigration. Asked Vance to be specific about how so many would be deported, separation of families.
V: Kamala Harris undid Trump’s border policies… opened the floodgates. Fentanyl was coming in at record levels… We’ll start with the criminals… One million of them. Then don’t let the immigrants work at less than minimum wage; if there’s no work, they’ll go home.
Q: the children?
V: Three million children have been lost by the government…
W: Kamala Harris was the Attorney General of a border state… We had a tough coalition bill, the border patrol wanted it, the Wall Street Journal wanted it, but Trump stopped it. Trump had four years to “build a wall” which he said Mexico would pay for, but only 2% was built and Mexico paid nothing.
V: We already have “child separation.” Chldren are being used as drug mules. All Harris did as VP was to undo Trump’s actions.
W: Vance vilified legal immigrants…
V: Housing, schools are overwhelmed. Anyone can apply online for legal status!
(he kept talking overtime, until moderators cut off the microphones)
Q: Economy
W: Kamala Harris’s plan would create three million new houses. Trump’s tariffs would cause a 20% tax hike. The wealthy need to pay their fair share. Economists from the Wharton School of Finance criticized Trump’s plan.
[NOTE: Trump graduated from U Penn’s famed Wharton School. See this fascinating article: https://www.phillymag.com/news/2019/09/14/donald-trump-at-wharton-university-of-pennsylvania/ ]
V: She had the opportunity and didn’t do those “great things.” Instead the cost of living has gone up. Those economists “have Ph.D.s but no common sense.”
W: Trump’s failure to listen to experts during Co-Vid led to a worse recession. Donald Trump hasn’t paid taxes in fifteen years and he brags about it.
V: “Experts” said we should shift manufacturing to other countries. Donald Trump said no, bring it back to the U.S. “Listen to common sense, not experts.”
W: Donald Trump created the largest deficit in our history… Farmers need fair trade partners.
Q: Your leadership qualities
W: “I’m a knucklehead at times, but I always work for my community.”
Q: (to Vance) what you said in 2016 comparing Trump to Hitler, and in 2020 criticizin his economic record.
V: “I was wrong. He delivered for the American people.” Biden did one good thing, he continued some of Trump’s tarriffs.
Q: Your views on abortion
W: (recounts Texas woman’s experience) Donald Trump put this into motion. Project 2025 would have a registry… After Roe was overturned, maternal mortality in Texas skyrocketed.
V: My party must get people’s trust back… Make it easier to afford to have a baby… Give more options. We have a big country—let voters make decisions in each state.
W: (Mentions a woman who died trying to get to another state for an abortion) You supported a national ban after fifteen weeks. You’ve changed your position.
V: No, I never supported a national ban. “So many young women would love to have families.” We need to make child care more accessible. (Accuses Minnesota of being pro-abortion.)
W: We’re not pro-abortion, we’re pro-freedom. Minnesota has one of the lowest teen pregnancy rates.
V: Under Minnesota law, a doctor isn’t required to help a baby survive after a botched abortion. Kamala Harris wants to force nuns to provide abortions.
W: Don’t distort the law. That’s not what it says. Things worked best when Roe was the law.
Q: Gun violence. Sen. Vance, you oppose most gun laws.
V: Details matter. 90% of gun violence is done with illegal firearms… from the Mexican drug cartel… Protect schools with increased security: stronger doors and locks, more officers.
W: My 17-year-old grandson witnessed a shooting in a community center… Hunters understand the second amendment… Minnesota has enhanced Red Flag laws. Finland has lots of guns but not school shootings. “Do you want your school to look like a fort?”
V: (expressed sympathy and concern about the boy witnessing a shooting) We have high rates of substance abuse, mental health probles, in big cities. “We must arrest the bad guys.”
W: I was in the NRA; they used to teach gun safety. The number one firearm death in Minnesota is rural suicide. Children get a gun and kill themselves. “Sometimes it’s just the guns.”
Q: The housing shortage. Will handing out money to homebuyers drive up prices?
W: (talks about what “home” means to people) A Veteran’s Home Loan was great.
V: An increase in illegal aliens drives up the prices of homes. Harris should have gotten something down before, “not sit around.” We have unused federal lands that can be used for homes. “We should be kicking out illegal imigrants who are taking the houses.”
W: Which lands? The protected federal lands? They are protected for a reason…
Q: (to Vance) Do you have evidence that migrants are the problem?
V: We have evidence! We are a country of builders, explorers… Harris wants to throw people in jail if they don’t do exactly what she says… We should not give (money) away to people without the right to be here.
W: “Congress, not the Vice President, writes the rules about housing.”
Q: about Health Care and pre-existing conditions
V: Of course. People would have private choice under Donald Trump. Under Kamala Harris, prescription drugs rose. If states can experiment… Donald Trump could have destroyed Obamacare but he didn’t.
W: I come from a major medical state (mentions the Mayo Clinic, 3M, etc.) Donald Trump’s plan was to repeal the ACA at once. Only Sen. John McCain saved it. Kamala Harris lowered Medicare drug prices. What Vance is explaining is pre-ACA, letting the insurance companies decide who to insure.
V: Keep the regulations to protect pre-existing conditions. The problem was that young healthy people were leaving the ACA exchanages.
Q: America is one of the few developed countries without national paid leave for babies and illness.
W: Big companies in Minnesota and California usually have a great leave system; but others don’t. Donald Trump will give tax breaks to the wealthy… Caregivers need more pay…
Q: About election fraud. Sen. Vance, would you challenge an election?
V: Donald Trump said protest peacefully in 2020. I said, debate peacefully. The threat to democracy is the threat of censorship. Kamala Harris wants to wants to silence people who engage in misinformation. I welcome Tulsi Gabbard and Robert F. Kennedy, Jr….
W: This is troubling. Donald Trump said he didn’t lose the election. The election was adjudicted. For the first time in American history a president denied the election. This has got to stop.
V: “It’s really rich to say that Donald Trump is a threat to democracy.” Trump was peaceful… Hillary Clinton said that in 2016 the Russians bought Facebook ads… “I don’t buy it that only Republicans have this problem.”
W: “Censorship is book banning. We are miles apart on this. (to Vance): “Did he lose the 2020 election?”
V: “I’m focused on the future!” Kamala Harris wants to silence peole for speaking their minds. Let’s argue and then decide.
W: It’s like yelling Fire in a crowded theater. “Donald Trump lost the election. Where is the firewall if Donald Trump knows he can do anything?” (directly to audience) “America, you’ve got a clear choice.”
(Summary)
W: I’m surprised as anybody at this coalition from Dick Cheney to Taylor Swift and all sorts of people in between… “We all know who Donald Trump is—he told us… Senator Vance told us he will stand with Donald Trump’s agenda.” We don’t need to be afraid. Kamala Harris is centering you at the heart of her agenda.
V: We didn’t talk about energy… I remember when my grandma didn’t have enough money to turn on the heat at night… Kamala Harris’s policies have made it harder… she’s had three and a half years! We have the greatest country in the world but people can’t fulfill their dreams under the Democrats.
== == ==
CBS commentators:
Vance was different than usual… Vance repeatedly said that Kamala Harris should have done things before… He seems to be that Donald Trump founded the ACA… He was cordial and compassionate…
MSNBC panel:
(Joy Reid, Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O’Donnell, Nicole Wallace, Chris Hayes Alex Wagner)
Joy - When running for the Senate, Vance said that abortion should be banned nationally and women stopped from travelling for an abortion. 80% of solar panels actually come from the USA, you can Google it.
Vance is incredibly smooth… all bland lies… People (online) complain that Walz didn’t “knock Vance out.”
Rachel - Walz destroyed Vance on health care.
Lawrence - Vance didn’t answer the question about whether Trump won! “He said words but didn’t answer the questions.” No answer about separating families, no answer about the national debt. No answer about where to seize federal lands.
Nicole – Vance kept speaking over the women moderators.
Lawrence – Norah O’Donnell did correct him on climate change being scientifically proven, and Vance complained that they were “fact-checking.”
Chris – You saw that Vance had the ability to talk to people who disagree.
(Video clip of Norah O’Donnell trying to get Vance to answer the question about the election results, and Vance saying “I’m focused on the future”)
Lawrence – Vance would say anything to get to Trump’s position on any topic.
-----
(in the “Spin Room” after the debate, where everyone stands around talking)
Alex W
interviews Gov. Pritzer of Illinois, who says,
This election is about the survival of democracy. He’s a slick debater, who kept shifting. Walz speaks in a way that ordinary people can
understand.”
Alex – Vance seemed very rehearsed, trying to be agreeable.
Gov. Pritzer – “He hasn’t ever held a job for more than two years. He wants power.”
-----
( ?) - That wasn’t the Gov. Walz I’ve seen, or the JD Vance I’ve seen.
Nicole – Yes, they were too mild. There was no contrast.
Rachel – There was good contrast about guns in schools. Is style a problem? Is Walz not “punchy” enough? Was it a strategy?
Joy – This debate won’t move many people. There are a few who wanted “details.” It was the Democractic bse who wanted a fistfight! Walz gave specifics on policy. He made people comfortable.
( ?) – Lots of people are undecided on whether or not to vote!
(in the Spin Room again)
Alex W. with former Sen. Claire McCaskill
Claire: Vance is a better liar than Donald Trump. Most Americans don’t see the Vice President as having power to make policy.
----
Poll after debate as to “who won” 42% Vance
41% Walz
17% tie
No comments:
Post a Comment